– Why and how did you decide to take part in the Karabakh war?
– I had been aware of this interethnic problem long before, back in 1970s. My father was shooting a film about Stepan Shaumyan. On this occasion, we traveled to Baku. One of my father’s close friends was an editor of the local Communist newspaper. When we met with this woman, she told us she was very concerned, since the governor of the Shushi prison had killed an Azerbaijani minister and committed suicide because of a housing problem. She did not know whether the prison head was Armenian or not: “If it turns out that he was an Armenian, there will be a massacre.” The beautiful illusion of the Soviet multinational country, of course, made this perspective unrealistic, but then I realized something was wrong. We had been living in this illusion for 70 years, but this was not about the people of Artsakh. They faced this danger every day and then came the year 1988.
In Davitashen district, the boys used to gather at the monument next to our block of flats. Right here, the civilian paramilitary unit called David of Sasun was formed. Ashot Manukyan was the commander and Samvel Gevorgyan was the chief of staff of the unit. Arkady Ter-Tadevosyan was also one of the commanders of the detachment. There were boys who came from different areas to join the unit, as it was the only officially registered irregular military organization. Hamlet Hovsepyan, head of the organization, was a lawyer and ensured the unit operated in the legal field. I went to Artsakh with them. I was in Krkzhan at first, which was the most dangerous segment of Stepanakert’s defense. The height number 26 located between Shushi and Stepanakert was the most dangerous and heavy position before the liberation of Shushi. The enemy was constantly and nervously working on this direction, and if they passed the height, they would enter Stepanakert. The position was called “26” because this was its communication node number. Yura Hovhannisyan, Yura 26, had been the commander of the position for a long time.
– And what or who did your camera capture in particular?
– There are different people around. Various people with various goals happened to be in Artsakh back then. Locals used to call “decorated cats” many of those who came from Armenia, referring to such people as painted cats that wanted to appear as tigers. There were large numbers of those who went on “tour” to Artsakh from Armenia. Such people are always more outrageous, they love to show off. The real devotees are much more discreet, they do their work quietly, without pathos. But the camera is looking for something extraordinary and beautiful. At first I mainly filmed the so called Ramboes, the guys with beards and moustache, carrying cartridge belts. There were a lot of such Ramboes there. The difference between national soldiers and Ramboes was striking when major military operations began. All this, of course, did not humiliate the role of the good fellows who had gone to Artsakh and who were loved and appreciated by the people there.
I knew Yura when still in Davitashen; we used to live in the same district. He was an extraordinary man, who was ready to sacrifice everything for the sake of dignity, even his life. His mother was came from Greece, and he used to say he was revenging in the name of two nations.
The position, as I mentioned earlier, was called 26, and it was set up by Seyran Ohanyan. I haven’t had many chances to communicate with him, but I’ve always appreciated one thing about him. There were cases when he could protest, get angry, but he never did that, for he realized that by getting angry he would give up to his ego and the situation would suffer. As an Armenian soldier, commander, a committed person with high consciousness, Seyran Ohanyan, is obviously a man of good morals.
What is history? Time passes by and nothing will remain from us in 100 years. Only these figures will remain in history, as well as the fact that we managed to liberate a part of our homeland at the end of the XX century. Sometimes fighters complain: did we fight for this or that? But there is no escaping the fact that each of us has done their job. The consumers and those who took advantage of the situation have done their part and the devotees – their part. Always and everywhere, people are divided into takers and givers. Various people happened to be involved in the Artsakh war for various reasons. I gave away most of the materials I had filmed with one purpose – ensure that the information reached the audience and people were aware of what was going on in Artsakh. I had almost hostile attitude toward those who sold their video materials to make money. At that time it was something like blasphemy for me. I had a slogan: I won’t make money on the blood of my friends. Later, when I visited my fellow soldiers and could not afford buying anything for their children, I realized that my Soviet upbringing had forced me to make a mistake.
I wasn’t really a cameraman, my video materials were aimed at one thing – videotape the heroic deeds of our guys there to show those materials here, so that to encourage our young people to join fighting in Artsakh. My video materials were more of agitprop. But in the first serious fight we had heavy death toll, and there was a moment when I simply had to put down the camera and take a weapon, because we needed fighters…
-It might have been difficult to turn from a camera to a weapon…
– There was heavy fighting a few days before the liberation of Shushi. I do believe in God and the verge between life and death is just a transitional phase for me. I take death in my stride, as I don’t see it as an end. But for many others death is, of course, something terrible and the survival instinct immediately starts to function when confronted with real danger. During the defense of position 26, there was a moment when no fighters were left and the enemy was getting closer. Yura said, “If we stay, we’ll be encircled in five minutes, it’s time to go.” There were three or four of us and we started to run amidst shelling. It took about 15 seconds and suddenly Yura stopped and said, “Where are we running?” Within those 15 seconds the survival instinct was buried inside him and his consciousness won. This is what I call heroism, when your knowledge, feelings and values that you live for win over your instincts. You fear death and adore life, but you realize there is something more important, worth sacrificing yourself. We remained in our place, other units came to the rescue, the problem was solved, and those 15 seconds were so decisive.
– If I am not mistaken you have actively participated in the production of a number of films directed by your father Zhirayr Avetisyan.
– The problem of national dignity runs like golden thread through most of Zhirayr Avetisyan’s films. It was probably natural for a man who originated from Mush and whose father had witnessed the terrible tragedy. He was from the village of Dghnik in Mush province; as a child, he went to take bread to his father who was working in the field and found him dead. The Turks were already in the village before he managed to get home. Their Kurdish neighbor threw the 11-year-old boy into the shed where he witnessed his entire family massacred by Turks. The term “fedai” was first used in Dzori Miro (Miro of the Valley) film. The production of this film had been stopped five or six times. When the Soviet government had friendly relations with Turkey, the film production was ceased, but when their relations worsened, they allowed resuming the shooting. Stepan Poghosyan, chairman of the State Television and Radio Broadcasting Committee, who was originally from Sasun, made an extremely significant contribution to the materialization of the film. I remember how Sos Sargsyan, Mushegh Galshoyan, Laert Poghosyan and my father gathered to make a vow that they would go to the end with Dzori Miro. Why it was titled Dzori Miro? The windows of Miro’s house were facing the valley. He was embittered by people, the whole world and life itself, since he had witnessed Russian treachery, while he trusted Russians unconditionally. There was a scene in the film which was removed later: Miro talks to Russian soldiers and hurries to tell others that Russian troops were coming to the rescue of Armenians. On the way back he turns around to see Russian troops leaving.
– Let’s turn to the pages of your biography regarding the Artsakh war.
– We claimed a victory in that war and that is important. We came out victorious against an enemy who largely outnumbered us. We created an independent country where many children will be born and our soldiers will be freed from the burden of firing into the air with a Kalashnikov rifle. Young Chechen President Kadyrov has recently made a wise statement: “Why does a nation need independence? They need it to speak their native language, to teach their children that language, to live within their cultural traditions and maintain their faith. This is what people are fighting for.” Independence is not an end in itself, but rather an opportunity to preserve national identity and express it to the best of ability.
– To what extent have we succeeded in this?
-We do have potential, this is what is important. A slight improvement in the situation, and we can give the world a lot. We need to preserve our achievements. I am optimistic, because optimism is in Armenian blood.
***Grigor Avetisyan was born in 1962. He is the son of the honored artist of Armenia, eminent director Zhirayr Avetisyan whose name is associated with first TV broadcast, first television filming and creation of first TV shows in Armenia.
In 1983 he graduated from Department of Cinema and Photography of Culture Faculty at Pedagogical Institute named after Khachatur Abovyan, where he attended a course by Laert Vagharshyan. After the graduation, Avetisyan started working at a television studio and later he became senior research assistant at Ministry of Culture’s Scientific-Methodological Center for Folk Art. He has also worked at Tesk film studio. After the national awakening in 1988 he left for Artsakh as a cameraman, but came back as a military.
On the basis of the materials shot during the wartime Grigor Avetisyan produced two documentaries. The first film is dedicated to David of Sasun unit and the second one, Playing Mock Battles, was about Yura Hovhannisyan.